Raymond Royer, Flagler County Commission Candidate: The Live Interview

Raymond Royer is an independent–or no party affiliation–candidate for Flagler County Commission, District 2, facing Theresa Pontieri, the current Palm Coast City Council member and vice mayor. Pontieri defeated Greg Feldman in the Republican primary. The District 2 seat has been held by Greg Hansen since his appointment in 2017 and subsequent elections. He opted not to run again. All registered voters in Flagler County, regardless of party affiliation or no party affiliation, may vote in this race on Nov. 3. The District 4 seat is also up. Incumbent Leann Pennington defeated Anna Jones and Drew Moss in the Aug. 18 primary. She remains on the ballot, because a write-in filed to run, forcing a contested election, though in effect, Pennington will be the winner come Nov. 3. Flagler County Commission members serve four years. They're paid $77,000 a year, an amount that will likely go up by a few thousand dollars by next year. The Live Interview format changed this year. Since 2010, FlaglerLive had submitted identical questions to all candidates, enabling them to answer in writing. There typically were a round or two of follow-up questions, also in writing. Artificial intelligence has made that approach obsolete now that candidates can run the questions through AI and spit out prefab answers. To get around that, candidates were invited to a video interview. The video and the transcript are provided below. The candidates were provided the same basic question within half an hour or less of the scheduled interview, but obviously not the follow-ups, which all differed. The questions to county commissioners are here. Following the interview and before publication, the interview transcript went through two rounds of editing at this end, once by AI (yes, the irony is inescapable) for spell checks, copy editing and to smooth out verbal tics or repetitive words, and once by me for the same purpose. The candidates were provided with the interview transcript and the video to review–not to make substantial changes, but to verify transcription accuracy, and, if they so chose, to add a postscript: if they felt they may have misspoken, or not clarified a point, or preferred to revise an answer, they were given that chance in the postscript, without changing the original text in the transcript. The postscript window is remaining open for subsequent additions, until the election. The interviews can be quite long–not a surprise for a site pathologically incapable of brevity, but the county is awash in candidate quickies. We offer a little more depth, seeking to draw a profile rather than check off boxes. In this particular case, AI was also used to condense the transcript since Royer's interview proved to be the longest of this election cycle, and the transcript would have run to 30,000 words without condensing it. It is now under 10,000 words. The Live Interview's aim is to elicit as much candor and transparency as possible, and to learn about the candidate beyond the basics in what amounts to extended conversations about the person, the character and temperament behind the candidate, the candidate's seriousness, and the issues. The rest is in the voters' hands. –Pierre Tristam The Interview Themes in Summary: Quick Links The Video: The Basics: FlaglerLive: Good morning, Mr. Royer. Ray Royer: Good morning. FlaglerLive: And thank you very much for doing the interview. We will just get started very quickly. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background, how you ended up in–first, tell us when you were born. Ray Royer: Okay, I was born October 13, 1963, in Allentown, Pennsylvania. A lot of historic events happened in Allentown. It is kind of close historically to Philadelphia. Philadelphia and Allentown have a lot of things in common. When I was growing up, I think I was probably around 12 when the city became an All-American City, and we had industry. We had Mack Trucks. We had GE. We had Bethlehem Steel. We had a very strong middle class, and everything was booming. Then when I got to the age of high school and getting ready to graduate, interest rates for home buying were at 18 percent. I believe our area was facing around 14 percent unemployment, but some parts of the nation were seeing 33 percent, and it didn't look very good. I thought I was going to get a job at one of the industries, so I decided to join the Navy in 1982. Two weeks after graduating high school, I was in the Navy. Did my boot camp. After boot camp, I got orders to go to the Philippines. I served in the Philippines for three years. During the Philippines tour, I was involved in the coup against President Marcos, the uprising. The base was shut down. Our ship went out to protect Mr. Marcos and his family until we made arrangements for his family to go to Hawaii. FlaglerLive: You say you were involved in the coup. What do you mean by involved? Ray Royer: We were involved because our bases were in the Philippines, so there was unrest outside the gates, and we were shut down. Unfortunately, the U.S. military Marines were 50 yards back from the fence, but the Marines for the Filipino military were taking a pretty bad beating from the local farmers and the unrest situation where they wanted Marcos overthrown. FlaglerLive: What did your Navy colleagues think about protecting a little tyrant like him? Ray Royer: The crazy part is now you have his son as the president. That's what really blows my mind when I look back, and I just don't understand why people voted him in. Moving forward, I was also involved in a situation–it sounds like a James Bond movie, but the tail wing on the airliner was 007, Korean Air Lines. It was shot down by the Russians. They were ready to invade their airspace, and they warned them and they shot them down. We went up there originally for a salvage operation, but it really turned into a hostile situation for 68 days. It was almost the beginning of World War III. Shortly after that, my time in the Philippines had come up. I went to San Diego. I was on board the Lewis B. Puller. Lewis B. Puller is a famous general, the last general who ever fought in combat situations, so we had our haircuts like Marines and stuff like that. Shortly after that, when I got on board, I became a rescue SAR swimmer at the Coronado Navy SEAL base. Not a SEAL, to make that clear, because a lot of people try to impersonate SEALs, but I was a rescue swimmer. At that time, the Navy changed that facility. Now that facility is in Florida, down in Pensacola. FlaglerLive: How many years in the Navy total? Ray Royer: I did four years total. FlaglerLive: Four years? Ray Royer: Four years. When I came out, I got a job working on I-78. FlaglerLive: You came out with what grade? Ray Royer: An E-4. FlaglerLive: So you came out in the mid to late '80s. Ray Royer: Yes, I came out in 1986. 1982 to 1986, four years, honorable discharge. I did Navy Reserves for nine years. Moving forward, I'm doing Navy Reserves, and I'm also working on heavy highway construction. There was Interstate 78 coming through Pennsylvania into New Jersey. It was going to be an artery coming through to free up all the traffic jams for the Northeast. I was working on a bridge crew. I was doing concrete work, and you had to be there at two or 3 o'clock in the morning to start pouring concrete, and then usually we ended by noon. They didn't want to pour during the sun. It was a hard job, and then shortly after that, that came to an end. I got laid off, and then I became a steelworker. When I was a steelworker, I later became a pipefitter. After that, at the age of 35, I got on the Allentown Fire Department, and I was still working under the umbrella of the pipefitters. Then they let me go because they frowned on part-time union members, so they told me they couldn't allow me to work there anymore as a pipefitter. But I still did refrigeration on the side in my own business called Royer's Mechanical Services. In that whole time period in the Navy, I got married. I had a son at the time, and then shortly after, probably when I was doing the end of the highway construction, I had a newborn coming. My son Sean, and I have a son Justin. My son Sean lives in Texas with his lovely wife. She is a Vietnamese young lady. My youngest son is married to a Brazilian woman. FlaglerLive: Did you say a Brazilian woman? Ray Royer: Yes, she's from Brazil. She was a green card holder, and they met at that time. My son was playing in a band called Flowers for Taco, and they traveled up the northeastern coast, the 14 states. Further west was probably Ohio, and Vermont was as far west as they went. They did that for five years. Right now he works for Fox Entertainment. He's a paralegal. He wants to be an attorney for entertainment, so he's being groomed, and he's going to go back to school on their dime to be a lawyer. The reason he got the job was because of his music career. The chief attorney for Fox didn't want to hear about his stints at the state attorney general for Pennsylvania, state attorney general for Los Angeles, state attorney general for San Diego. FlaglerLive: We're getting a little far afield here, just to narrow it down to Ray Royer specifically. It's great to hear about the family and the children and their professional successes, but we do need to focus on yours and how you ended up in Flagler County. Ray Royer: A quick short story: I retired from the Allentown Fire Department around 2011. I waited until December to see how the contract was going to go. It didn't go in favorable decisions, so I ended up retiring and pensioned out. My wife was able to get a transfer. She still works for the company. She's been with the company 37 years now, which is kind of unheard of today, to work for the same company. FlaglerLive: In your time with the fire department–and I'm asking this because this is relevant to your role as a county commissioner, respectively–were you involved in a leadership role in the union? Ray Royer: I was a safety officer in the union. FlaglerLive: Did you take part in collective bargaining negotiations? Ray Royer: We had the main bargaining unit, and then we had what we called the playbook of our minds, where I was on the sideline. They would go over and review what the city would say, with my prior experience, because I was actually a shop steward in the union for steelworkers. I had a lot of other trade experience in different unions, so they respected my opinion. I was kind of like a bounce-off for negotiations, but I didn't do the main bargaining. I did shop steward work where I went to arbitrations and hearings, and I never lost anybody's job. I represented them, and we went by the labor and management contract. FlaglerLive: After 2011, how did you end up in Flagler? Ray Royer: My wife got a transfer opportunity to come to Florida, to Orlando, where they had an operation yard. She asked me, and I had no commitment to anybody anymore, so I said, let's do it. We packed up. We had a log home in Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania, and we ended up renting that for years. I also had a property next door to that, an empty lot, which I still own today. Plus, in that span where we were together in Jim Thorpe, we bought a home in Ocean City, Maryland, in Ocean Pines. Then we bought this property down here, so now we have three homes. We bought close to a 13-acre property. It was a foreclosure, and we got it for a really good deal. FlaglerLive: Where are you homesteaded? Ray Royer: I'm homesteaded right here in Painters Hill, Flagler County. FlaglerLive: And how long have you been at that particular property? Ray Royer: I've been here nine years now. FlaglerLive: At Painters Hill? Ray Royer: Going on nine years. I've been here for a while. I was in Mims, I think for six or seven years. I was involved; I started an advisory board. We had a corrupt POA, a property owners association. It was five-acre minimum properties and above. I had 13; a neighbor across the street had 18, so it was various size properties. I started an advisory board to challenge the board, and it became very successful. I chaired it. I was lucky enough to have very talented, educated people on the advisory board–some school teachers, some other people that had other assets, like one gentleman that really helped us a lot because our minutes were never really the true minutes. We started recording the meetings, and by recording, we were able to keep the truth flowing. When I went to my first POA meeting, I said to an older gentleman, 'What's the sheriff doing here?' He said, 'Oh, is this your first meeting?' I said, 'Yeah.' He said, 'Well, these meetings go to fisticuffs.' I said, 'Really? A sheriff?' FlaglerLive: He was a sheriff's deputy, right? Ray Royer: A sheriff's deputy hired for the POA because the meetings would break out into fights. FlaglerLive: This was here in Painters Hill? Ray Royer: This was when I first moved, in Mims, Florida, off of 46. That was my 13-acre property. Now I live in Painters Hill on the island. We sold that other property for a good profit; I actually came down $70,000 on it. FlaglerLive: Tell me, Ray, why you decided to move to Flagler County in particular? Ray Royer: There were two choices. I knew the area because we used to go to Finn's on Bike Week, so I was very familiar with the area. We liked the way downtown Flagler Beach was, where all the restaurants were facing the ocean. The other choice we were considering highly was New Smyrna Beach. We were thinking about that, but the more we visited, the more we realized it wasn't the same as this atmosphere. We appreciate that they don't allow any commercial buildings on the beaches. We gravitated to this. Granted, I looked at 13 homes that day before buying. FlaglerLive: Let's not go through the 13 homes at this point. I want to ask you about your political history. You're running as an independent, which, as you probably know, I don't think there's ever been an independent elected to the county commission. What has been your registration history? Ray Royer: I started off as a Democrat and was very highly involved in the political union business. I went to Washington, D.C., for two weeks to go to school for unions. FlaglerLive: Those were during the Reagan union-busting days. Ray Royer: Yes, when I was with the steelworkers. I was really involved with the steelworkers, went to school, and ended up meeting Arlen Specter and Senator John Heinz to try to negotiate some of the terms we still don't have today, like paid family leave. A lot of stuff we fought for in the '80s, we still don't have. National healthcare was another one that we were trying to get. I was very involved. Shortly after I visited Senator Heinz, two or three weeks later, he unfortunately died in a plane crash. I have a lot of experience. I was a Democrat, and the day I left the party and became an independent was when I was still a steelworker. I went to the union hall, and President Clinton signed the NAFTA bill. I was very upset, and I came to the conclusion that the two-party system is one bird. My political signs will have that; I have a bird on my signs. FlaglerLive: Had you voted for Ross Perot that year? Ray Royer: I actually really liked Ross Perot. I was on his campaign ticket, out there helping him. I don't know if you remember the day when his daughter was threatened and he quit. That evening he quit, and the next morning he decided to come back in. I said, 'You can't just quit and come back in. I'm done with you.' You have to be in it. Your life and your family's lives are on the line when you get into politics, especially at the presidential level. FlaglerLive: So you've been an independent since the '90s. Ray Royer: Yes, since the '90s. I actually ran as an independent in Penn Forest, Pennsylvania. I ran three executive campaigns. The first time I lost by 900 votes, because it's hard to get elected as an independent. The second time I lost by just a little over 500. The third time I lost, it was by about 140-something. That year I was working really closely with a friend of mine whose wife had a big real estate company up on the mountain called Mary Enck. She controlled the whole mountain. Big Re/Max and all these others would try to go up there and set up shop, but she owned the mountain and was highly respected, so they helped me out. The fourth time I was going to run, I decided to come to Florida, and her husband was really upset because he said, 'Ray, this is your year as an independent. You're going to get elected because your name is now recognized throughout the mountain.' FlaglerLive: In your role as a candidate for the county commission here, what have you done to prepare so that you're actually ready from day one if you're elected? Ray Royer: I have been involved with the county; I've been going to county meetings for about a year and a half. I attend at least 80 percent of them. If I don't attend, like the recent interview for the new administrator, I watched it on television because they broadcast it later. I watched it, and I'm not particularly happy with their choice, but at least they're opening it up to other candidates, and he might not be selected. If they could wait until after the election, I'd like to have my input, strong input, and have a vote to say in the matter. FlaglerLive: What are your thoughts, particularly not so much about the candidates themselves, but about the fact that a new commissioner, regardless of whether it's you or Ms. Pontieri, will be elected in November, and having Greg Hansen be the one making the decision right before the election? Ray Royer: If you watch the interview, Greg is dealing with some personal health issues. I watch him, and he's also a Navy captain. I respect his service, but it seems to me he can't wait for the day he can leave. At the same token, he has to make a choice here. I just feel the board should wait. There's no need to push this forward; it's not like it's a house fire. We will get an administrator if we need an administrator. Talking about starting salary, you're talking $200-some thousand, probably right next to the sheriff being the second-highest salary. I'd have to review that if Amendment Three passes. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Preparation and Character FlaglerLive: We'll get to that in a moment. To continue with your preparation for the county commission, other than attending meetings, what have you done? For instance, have you met with directors? Have you met with other commissioners? How have you prepared? Ray Royer: Yes, I've talked to commissioners on the sideline after meetings. I've been up to the podium numerous times giving my opinion on different issues. I was very upset when they cut the facility for dementia–helping our community with dementia, where we had a facility that was county-controlled. Now they're talking about privatizing it. I don't see where that is the channel to go when the county actually had a successful program where we had an RN, a registered certified nurse, and two LPNs, and with no state violations, we were running a very successful program. FlaglerLive: You're getting into the specifics of the programs themselves, but I'm talking about your preparation, your homework. What have you done to show voters you are prepared? Ray Royer: I've done a lot of homework. I've been studying the beach replenishing program. I'm not a big fan of the approach; I agree with Kim Carney on the approach of trying to come up with the funds. I don't think the half-cent sales tax is the golden ticket, and that's one of the reasons why the last program failed. They had seven programs to try to fund this beach replenishing, and if any one of them was a weak link, it was going to collapse. Unfortunately, the half-cent sales tax collapsed, and it broke the whole chain. I don't know why we don't have a successful plan, because our bookends have them, and the state is happy with their plans. They actually get more funding because they have a solid plan. We're not getting the full funding, and the state has been telling us for numerous years that if we don't have a plan soon, they're going to stop matching dollar for dollar. That would devastate this area. FlaglerLive: Have you studied the budget? Ray Royer: Yes, I sat with Adam Mengel, the county administrator. He gave me the opportunity to go over the budget. I looked at it very quickly and said to Adam that I really didn't want to look at the numbers, because what he gave me was broad accounting numbers. It's not line by line to really see what's going on. For me, I said, 'These are nice that you're giving this to me, Adam, but let's talk about others.' Since I'm not in a voting position, numbers given today can change easily by tomorrow, so they didn't mean anything to me; they're just numbers until I'm in a position to vote. We talked about all kinds of things: the sand replenishing program, all kinds of issues. I was bouncing things off him to see if he would share any knowledge from being in that role, where he gets more opportunity to listen to what's going on in the inner circle. There's a lot of inner circle, hush-hush discussions going on. A prime example is the 600-some-acre tract facility that's going to come in here. FlaglerLive: That has nothing to do with the county commission, except that they've intervened to try to perhaps stop that. That's a Bunnell issue. Ray Royer: It's also a county issue because there is county surrounding land that could affect constituents. That's why they were involved, but again, a little too late. That's why zoning and planning for the county and our municipalities have got to come together. We are battling each other, and it's not working. In order to be 'Flagler Strong'–they use that phrase too lightly–we have to unite all together and be on the same playing field. I was at the meeting when Flagler Beach commissioners showed up. They were silent on sand replenishing, and county members were asking what they could contribute. I went up there and laid into them because I wanted to hear what Flagler Beach would contribute. They were silent, and I let them know about it. FlaglerLive: It's not entirely fair to say that they were silent. They were very supportive of the half-cent sales tax, and they were supportive of a fee that the entirety of the island would pay–all property owners. What they were against was having Flagler Beach singled out for a particular fee or tax while the rest of the county or the island did not contribute their share. They were silent because of the context of that specific meeting, but they have shown they were willing to do their share. But we are going to get to beach renourishment in a particular question later on. Tell us how you arrive at a decision when you need to make one. How do you get there? Ray Royer: I do a lot of homework. I don't take presentations at face value. I never did in my work careers. As a pipefitter, I would get plans, review them, and look at the structure. At times I found that the plans missed objectives that blocked what my job needed to do, so I had to go back to the engineers and let them know there was a firewall in the building that I couldn't just knock over and put pipes through, so we had to come up with a better plan. I look at everything. I also highly respect the public comments that come to the podium. Most of the time, their input is spot-on. I don't know why the county commission takes the position that new developments have free rein. I understand Senate Bill 180 is coming in and changing the elements for the county to have better control, but they're sitting on their hands. If they're upset about it, get up to Tallahassee and let them know we need to make our own county decisions, not just let the state give free will. FlaglerLive: The county has done that. They made their voice very clear about SB 180. They didn't join the lawsuit against it, but they were very clear to our legislators and to folks in Tallahassee. Ray Royer: There are parts of SB 180 I totally agree with, and I understand why it happened. SB 180 was developed for the western-side representatives because their constituents were facing insurance payment delays to rebuild homes, and delays because zoning and planning told them they couldn't build homes at existing places due to zoning setbacks. It was a nightmare, and those homeowners are still trying to build on the western side of Florida. SB 180 was developed for that reason. But like all these bills, developers slipped their agendas in, got greedy, lobbied hard, and got their wishes. Some of the bill is really aggressive where developers have free rein, while the private homeowner is still fighting and not getting justice. FlaglerLive: To get back to your profile, aside from going on tangents, can you tell us about your character flaws? One character flaw that you think is relevant to how you do your work. Ray Royer: My character flaw right now would be that I need to take more time to listen. Over the years of my life, I found that if I had just taken the time to listen more, I wouldn't have missed key elements that could have made for better decisions. That would be my flaw. But I am 100 percent better than where I used to be. I used to have a thick-headed, one-sided opinion. I've decided to open my mind, and my mind is very open today. I don't hold grudges anymore. I've changed from when I was a younger man being bold with the alpha-male attitude. I consider myself a sigma male now, not an alpha male. FlaglerLive: Tell us about that. Ray Royer: I'm also a polymath. Have you ever heard the word polymath? FlaglerLive: Yes. Ray Royer: I'm a polymath. I've come to the conclusion that I take all my experiences and don't reject them, because I learned from a lot of mistakes I made. I review those mistakes because I want to be a better person and reflect that. FlaglerLive: Can you tell us about a particular mistake you made in your professional life that had a very large influence on what you're talking about right now, and how you got over it and grew from it? Ray Royer: A decision I made that bothers me to this day was when I became a SAR swimmer. The instructors told us they were having difficulties getting us proper wetsuits; you had to go back to the fleet command to get a custom wetsuit, and they were about $3,500 to get properly fitted. When I went back to my command, my commanding officer tried to hand me an all-fit suit. I rejected it, and we argued for about a half hour. I told my commanding officer respectfully that I could not be his ship's swimmer, asked for a pen and paper, and resigned as the ship's swimmer. I didn't resign as a swimmer from the Navy, but I was not going to be his ship's swimmer if he didn't want to spend the extra money to make sure I was safe in the water. It upset me because I tried to explain how much grueling time I spent in that pool, literally drowning and physically defeated, where my mind was the only thing keeping me going. We started with almost 90 students and ended with a class of about 13. It still bothers me today that I had to put myself in that position. I've been put in that position numerous times. When I was a steelworker, I shut the whole plant down for safety reasons and was challenged by the company. People tell me I'm getting into the underbelly of politics here, and I say I've been there in different capacities. Ronald Reagan was a union buster, so it was coming down from politics and the U.S. government, not just corporations. It's going to be demanding, but I'm willing to take the job on. We have to move toward truth and a balanced budget that is affordable for everyone. FlaglerLive: We'll get into those specifics. Tell me who you admire in politics today in Flagler County. Start with the county commission, and you can also mention other elected officials on local boards. Who would you look to as models of leadership? Ray Royer: They all have their own way of looking at things, which is fine; they are different people. I do admire Kim Carney's conservatism. She is very conservative in her perspective because she's always looking at numbers and questioning whether this is the path we should take. She was one of the ones very opposed to the half-cent sales tax, and I kind of agreed with her. With our farmers, they use their tractors a lot. I have a diesel truck with a 40-gallon tank. I put 26 gallons of fuel in, and it was about $150. When we try to apply a half cent, it doesn't sound like a lot, but it's the add-on. FlaglerLive: Your math is a bit off on that. It wouldn't be nearly that much on a half penny. Ray Royer: I'm just throwing numbers out there; I'm not going to sit there and do math in my head real quick. But it's an add-on. FlaglerLive: It's important when we're dealing with tax policy not to throw out numbers that are not accurate. Ray Royer: I'm not really sold on the half-cent tax because they sell it to us like it's a benefit, and it's not a benefit. FlaglerLive: I'm going to ask you specifically about the half-cent sales tax a little further on, but who would be a model of leadership for you among local officials? Ray Royer: Other than Kim Carney, I admire her conservative ethics. In this position, you're spending other people's money, and I appreciate that she tries to make sure we spend it wisely. This county and the municipalities have spent foolishly in some cases. FlaglerLive: The way you describe Kim Carney, you might as well be describing Teresa Pontieri, your opponent. Ray Royer: Teresa flip-flops. I really don't know where she stands. She flip-flops to present herself differently, but if you look at her history, everybody knows that. Greg only lost by less than 700 votes, which tells me the party is fractured and they're aware of Teresa. FlaglerLive: When you say she flip-flopped, what is an example? Ray Royer: She was against development in the beginning, and then all of a sudden she's taking money from developers, and then she gives the money back. She voted on ICI issues, and now she's an opponent of development. She is all over the place trying to be favorable without making sound decisions, playing both sides of the fence. FlaglerLive: We're speaking in general terms, but specifically, what issue did you see where she flip-flopped? Ray Royer: Her development decisions. She has been bought, paid for, and rolled against the citizens she represents. FlaglerLive: That's a pretty vicious accusation. Bought by whom? Ray Royer: She gave $5,000 back to ICI, didn't she? FlaglerLive: She gave the money back, right? Ray Royer: Yes, and then she voted. FlaglerLive: Elected officials accept contributions from real estate folks and developers all the time. In this instance, it became an issue because there was an ICI project in front of the council. Ray Royer: The only reason she gave it back is because people called her out for a conflict of interest. She voted on an issue involving someone she took contributions from. If I took a contribution, I would wish you would hold me accountable and ask why I was allowed to vote. FlaglerLive: Should Sheriff Staley not buy anything from Axon Corporation, which provides a huge deal of the sheriff's technology, because they contribute to his campaign? Should he not be buying from Axon? Ray Royer: That's a topic I'm not as familiar with. I know he takes contributions, like with the Flock cameras. I'm glad the governor made a decision regarding that. FlaglerLive: Elected officials receive contributions from various places all the time and make decisions. Courts have legally affirmed that receiving a contribution from an individual or entity does not automatically bar an official from voting on matters involving them. Ray Royer: Does the sheriff make the final decision on his budget? No, he doesn't. FlaglerLive: He comes to the table with his budget, and county commissioners decide on the bottom line. Ray Royer: He comes to the table with his budget, and county commissioners decide if it is reasonable. After they approve his budget, they have no say over line items; he's a constitutional officer. FlaglerLive: Commissioners do have authority over the bottom-line budget. We were trying to put into context your charge that your opponent is bought. Ray Royer: I had a meeting with the sheriff last week. I hoped it would be an hour, but he narrowed it down to a half hour because he's a busy guy. The two topics I hit right away: I'm not a big fan of his helicopter program. I don't think we have the population or industry to pay for that service. I told him I do appreciate his drone program; it is probably one of the best in Florida, and it can do everything that helicopter can do while being unmanned. The officers asking for that helicopter program can pay for it. The other topic we talked about was healthcare for his deputies. He assured me he's going to do a better job with it, but his deputies are not happy. They pay more out for health insurance and receive less coverage. Being a union man, that doesn't fly with me. FlaglerLive: As a county commissioner, you won't have the authority to tell the sheriff which healthcare plan he must use. That is up to the sheriff. Ray Royer: You're right, but the commission holds the purse strings. FlaglerLive: Up to a point. As a county commissioner, you cannot dictate line-item spending to the sheriff, and he can appeal his budget to the governor in a way other constitutional officers cannot. Ray Royer: I understand that, but departments have to be kept in check. In my perspective, looking at the numbers, our population and industry cannot afford the helicopter program. In my hometown of Allentown, Pennsylvania, they have the same population as Flagler County, and their police force is 200 officers with a $30 million budget, no helicopter, and better benefits and retirement. Why is money being spent here for over 400 personnel, a helicopter, and a special vehicle to go into the swamplands? That is showboating, not department needs. I put a roof on my house before I go on vacation. In my opinion, he's not taking care of the deputies; if you talk to them off the record, most are not happy with their healthcare. FlaglerLive: These details are outside the county commission's statutory authority. You cannot negotiate contracts with rank-and-file deputies or dictate healthcare plans; you can only approve the bottom line and offer recommendations. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Grading the Commission FlaglerLive: To get back to the county commission itself, what letter grade would you give the current commission? Ray Royer: A straight C. Not a C-minus or a C-plus, just a C. There are a lot of faults I've seen. When Kim Carney and Pam Richardson came in, they were trying to get their feet wet and figure out what was going on. I have knowledge of government from working in the fire department and on the union side with grievances, working with city administrators, the mayor, and council members on and off the record. FlaglerLive: What are two examples where the commission failed to earn better than a C? Ray Royer: They failed big time on sand replenishing. St. Johns and Volusia counties have managed it. The commission likes to compare themselves to our bookend counties sometimes, and other times they don't. FlaglerLive: The bookend counties generate tourist development tax revenue that Flagler County does not have. St. Johns and Volusia have resources that Flagler does not, which was why the county proposed a different revenue source, including the sales tax that Ms. Carney and others opposed. But it wasn't for lack of trying. Ray Royer: It wasn't for lack of trying, and that was Greg Hansen's leadership. I don't think he failed totally; he tried to get something together. But I agree with Kim that there are other avenues. Tourism needs to contribute more money. FlaglerLive: Tourism tax revenue is capped by statute and fully allocated. They receive four and a half million dollars a year, divided three ways, and they have increased their contribution to beach renourishment to the maximum extent legally possible, at the expense of capital projects and marketing. There is simply no additional tourism money available. Ray Royer: The marketing side of it is too high. Did we really need to build a $10 million facility for tourism when we don't even have that level of tourism? What attracts tourists here? We don't have public beach parking like Daytona. FlaglerLive: Flagler Beach actually has numerous public parking spaces and is developing a paid parking plan. Aside from the beach, what is another example where the commission has fallen short? Ray Royer: The dementia day care program. They had a successful plan, and they are cutting it to privatize it. Even though it is on the taxpayers' dime, they were preparing to spend money to put a new roof on it, new windows and doors, and upgrade the building. That land was donated for elder care uses only, and now they are trying to skirt the language to lease it to a private entity. FlaglerLive: Which facility are you referring to? Ray Royer: The county-run building where they held the dementia day care program, managed by the county director, Joe Mayer. FlaglerLive: The county noted that the program served fewer than 20 people while costing over $300,000 a year. Is that a defensible cost-benefit ratio? Ray Royer: It used to serve up to 30. A lot of people weren't even aware the program existed because it wasn't marketed. We spend millions marketing tourism, but we didn't market this service for people under financial strain. For 20 people, spending around $365,000 was money well spent compared to spending $10 million on a tourism building. As I've gotten older, my compassion has grown. In the Navy and as a firefighter, I served to help people in their worst moments. I was upset when Pam Richardson suggested we shouldn't let bleeding hearts drive decisions. One gentleman whose wife used the facility spoke at the podium, and they gave him time to speak. I went up and spoke with him afterward, and he thanked me. FlaglerLive: Can you name a couple of successes by the county commission over the last two years? Ray Royer: I came in on the tail end of sand replenishing and saw that fall short, so that wasn't successful. I can't really name major successes. They purchased about 90 acres of wetlands along John Anderson Highway to conserve them, but I think we paid way too much for land that a builder couldn't build on anyway. FlaglerLive: What about the ongoing effort to conserve about 500 acres of the Veranda Bay property around Bulow Creek? Ray Royer: There are many tracts people want to save. On the Old Brick Road, I understand it's historic and one of the longest remaining stretches, but I can only get behind it if we get a 50-foot buffer from the western expansion property owners and timber operations. Right now the buffer is only about 15 feet. Without a proper buffer, saving it loses its purpose. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Goals FlaglerLive: The western expansion proposal is dormant for now. What are two specific goals you would bring to the table as a commissioner? Ray Royer: I would work tirelessly to get a state-approved, comprehensive, long-term and short-term beach replenishing plan that the state will fund. FlaglerLive: A beach management plan has been completed; it is the local funding mechanism that remains unresolved. Ray Royer: It is not approved by the state if the funding is not accepted. Looking at our bookend counties, their plans are more solid. We have about 12 oceanfront property owners who haven't signed easements. Flagler Beach talked about eminent domain, which would lead to lawsuits. I told them at the podium that arguing over 12 scattered properties while leaving other reaches open doesn't make sense. We need a plan that addresses the entire coastline with periodic maintenance. FlaglerLive: The county's plan divides the 18 miles into five reaches. Reach Two, from North Seventh Street to Varn Park, is scheduled for construction next year, and that is where those 12 easement holdouts are located. The issue is funding for the remaining reaches. Aside from beach renourishment, what is another goal you would pursue? Ray Royer: I would like to revisit the master planning and zoning framework that was originally developed with ITT. After listening to arguments for a year and a half about infrastructure not keeping up with development, we put the cart before the horse. The new master plan is aggressive on development but weak on infrastructure implementation language, which is causing clashes with developers. FlaglerLive: Are you confusing county planning with the City of Palm Coast's comprehensive plan? Ray Royer: Both the city and the county face similar issues. Palm Coast developed a new master plan even though the previous one didn't expire until 2038, and the county also updated its comprehensive plan. Even Andy Dance has remarked that we need to revisit the drawing board because we left out language to better protect areas like the 500 acres of wetlands. FlaglerLive: The county's comprehensive plan evaluation and rewrite included public hearings, even if attendance at planning workshops is typically modest. Ray Royer: They lose the public because they don't explain things in layman's terms; they use engineering terms and abbreviations that leave people lost. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. The Homestead Amendment FlaglerLive: How are you going to vote on Amendment Three, the proposal to increase the homestead exemption? Ray Royer: I am voting yes. FlaglerLive: Explain your reasoning. Ray Royer: I looked at the history of Florida's homestead exemption back to when it was first established in the 1930s or 1940s, when property taxes were structured differently. FlaglerLive: Amendment Three would reduce county revenue by an estimated $33 million out of a $140 million general fund in the first year, and nearly $59 million in the second year. How will you make up those losses? Ray Royer: Basic services will not be affected; we will still fund police, fire, and paramedics. The sheriff will have to decide whether to cut his helicopter program before considering layoffs. We have to cut the low-hanging fruit. When I reviewed numbers with Adam Mengel, there were questionable line items that aren't discussed publicly. FlaglerLive: What is an example of those line items? Ray Royer: For example, paying fees for radio stations or newspaper advertisements when county government is the newsmaker. FlaglerLive: The county does not pay radio stations or newspapers stipends. They only pay for mandated legal advertising required by Florida law. Ray Royer: The county has to decide whether to rely on its own communications and IT or continue paying for advertising. I don't understand why we spend so heavily promoting tourism when our tourism assets are limited and we have infrastructure shortages like beach parking. FlaglerLive: Are you saying Flagler County does not have a significant tourism industry? Ray Royer: We spend too much on advertising and don't receive enough in return. What keeps our beaches going are our family-owned restaurants, like the Fish Company. FlaglerLive: If Amendment Three passes, you support the tax cut, but you are not interested in raising other taxes to replace all that lost revenue? Ray Royer: There are other ways of generating revenue, but we need a line-by-line review of the budget. When commissioners asked departments for a 10 percent reduction, some departments shifted numbers rather than making real cuts. Meanwhile, Clerk of Court Tom Bexley asked for a budget increase. The county's population grew 26 percent over five years, while the sheriff's budget increased 87 percent. FlaglerLive: That 87 percent increase was over a five-year period, not year-over-year. Ray Royer: That is still a substantial increase. We have to protect basic services, but we may need to stop purchasing additional land when we cannot afford the ongoing maintenance costs. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Sales Tax Increase? FlaglerLive: What is your direct position on the half-cent sales tax? Ray Royer: I would support a sales tax if it is applied fairly across the board. In my district, we have beachfront and saltwater canals, neither of which has an adequate long-term maintenance plan. The canals haven't been dredged in over a decade. FlaglerLive: Saltwater canal maintenance in Palm Coast falls under the jurisdiction of the City of Palm Coast, not the county commission. Ray Royer: The county and the city can enter into interlocal agreements and co-op on equipment purchases, sharing machinery to dredge canals and maintain ditches, just as fire and police departments share mutual aid agreements. FlaglerLive: So you are not entirely opposed to a sales tax increase? Ray Royer: I am not opposed if it addresses broad needs. In Commissioner Leann Pennington's district, there are 140 miles of unpaved roads in the Mondex and Daytona North where residents have waited 50 years for paving. In Mims, on our 13 miles of unpaved roads, I hired the original civil engineer, and we organized a special assessment to pave five and a half miles of the main road. I support special assessments and sales taxes when they are fair and targeted. FlaglerLive: So you would support making up some lost revenue through special assessments and sales taxes? Ray Royer: I do not support maintaining excessive general fund reserves. Having six or eight months of operating reserves is unnecessary when state law only requires two months. Over 40 percent of our residents live paycheck to paycheck, and keeping excess money in county reserves takes money out of household budgets. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Blaise Ingoglia's Claims of Waste FlaglerLive: Do you accept state Senator Blaise Ingoglia's claim that Flagler County wasted $59 million over five years? Ray Royer: I understand how he arrived at that number. Not all of it was waste, but coming out of the COVID housing boom, prices escalated and spending expanded rapidly. Kim Carney publicly estimated that $14 million to $18 million could be considered wasteful spending. FlaglerLive: What specific examples of waste can you point to in the county general fund? Ray Royer: I did not receive a line-by-line budget from Adam Mengel, so I cannot name specific line items today. In my first 90 days in office, I will have independent accountants review the books line by line to identify where waste exists. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Consolidation The question was not asked specifically as a stand-alone question as Royer in answers to other questions repeatedly referred to various opportunities to consolidate in general terms. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Environmentally Sensitive Lands FlaglerLive: The Environmentally Sensitive Lands program has completed 28 acquisitions since the 1980s, funded by a small ad valorem tax of 12.5 cents per $1,000 of taxable value. Do you favor renewing that program, and would you support increasing its funding? Ray Royer: I support conservation, but not as a blank check. We have to examine the surrounding environment, ensure proper buffers, and evaluate maintenance costs, such as controlled burns to reduce wildfire fuel loads. I support maintaining the current ESL tax rate, but not increasing it, and pushing for more state matching funds. FlaglerLive: Would you change the mission of how ESL funds are spent, such as using them for beach renourishment? Ray Royer: Yes, I would be open to changing the mission and exploring whether funds could be used for beach renourishment, as Kim Carney suggested, provided it is legally permissible. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Beach Management FlaglerLive: How specifically would you fund the county's beach management plan? Ray Royer: We need a countywide approach rather than burdening individual towns. Beverly Beach received estimates suggesting a cost of over $700,000 a year for beach renourishment maintenance, which would devastate their municipal budget and mobile home residents. We must stop piecemealing the coast and pursue broad funding through intergovernmental cooperation and equitable revenue mechanisms. FlaglerLive: What specific tax structures would you propose to pay for beach renourishment? Ray Royer: There are various revenue options that can be shared across the community, but we must ensure that residents who don't live on the beach, as well as agricultural producers, aren't disproportionately burdened. The half-cent sales tax failed because only about 30 percent was paid by tourists, leaving 70 percent to local residents. We need a plan that treats the whole coastline together rather than stretching work out over a decade. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Public Safety Budgets FlaglerLive: Regarding the sheriff's budget, spending increased 87 percent over five years, and fire rescue increased 80 percent, while population grew about 22 percent. Is that sustainable? Ray Royer: The sheriff's budget has expanded while the fire department is still down three stations, affecting our ISO ratings and driving up homeowners insurance premiums. Paramedics are running constantly. The sheriff's office is top-heavy with supervisors; we need more frontline deputies on road patrol rather than upper-level administration. The helicopter program was an unnecessary expense for a county of this size. Furthermore, bringing sheriff's personnel into the county's group health insurance pool would lower premium costs for deputies and save taxpayers money. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. County Airport FlaglerLive: Does the county have the authority to address noise and leaded aviation fuel pollution at the Flagler Executive Airport? Ray Royer: While direct airspace regulations fall under the FAA, the county should actively lobby state and federal officials in Tallahassee and Washington to address leaded fuel emissions over schools and residential neighborhoods. We cannot simply throw our hands up and ignore public safety concerns. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Rap Sheet FlaglerLive: Have you ever been charged with a misdemeanor or felony? Ray Royer: I had one misdemeanor DUI in Brevard County in 2014. I went through the required program, and I did not lose my driver's license. FlaglerLive: Have you ever faced bankruptcy? Ray Royer: No, never. FlaglerLive: Have you ever faced formal investigative or disciplinary actions in your professional career? Ray Royer: In the Navy, I went to captain's mast after a physical altercation that arose over leadership breakdowns in our division, but no reduction in rank or pay occurred. In the Allentown Fire Department, as a safety officer, I had a dispute with officers over unapproved breathing apparatuses on an engine, but no formal disciplinary action was taken. When I was a steelworker, I was terminated after shutting down the plant over a safety hazard. I went to an unemployment hearing without union representation and won my case, which allowed me to receive retraining benefits for plumbing, electrical, and HVAC, leading to my career as a pipefitter. FlaglerLive: Thank you very much for taking the time to answer these questions. See how Theresa Pontieri responded. Postscript Ray Royer: In my first 90 days, if elected, I will conduct a thorough line-by-line review of the budget with independent accountants. Thank you for the interview, and I look forward to speaking with you again. See how Theresa Pontieri responded.